CONVERTING TO DIGITAL TV Updated on 02/24/2007 by Russ Munch
The following information is subject to change, and for the latest information, go to appropriate Internet sites.
What do I need to do to be ready for the end of analog TV boroadcasting
Televisions Services in the San Jose, CA Area
Considerations for Choosing a Television Service
Cost Comparisons for Television Services
My Choice for a Television Service
OEM Cable Box and OEM DVR
Operating Problems with Comcast Cable
Image Retention on a LCD Screen
For general information, go to http://www.nbc11.com/digital/index.html
What do I need to do to be ready for the end of analog TV broadcasting
The Web page http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html contains the following article titled “What do I need to do to be ready for the end of analog TV broadcasting?”
“Because Congress mandated that the last day for full-power television stations to broadcast in analog would be February 17, 2009, over-the-air TV broadcasts will be in digital only after that date. If you have one or more televisions that receive free over-the-air television programming (with a roof-top antenna or “rabbit ears” on the TV), the type of TV you own is very important. A digital television (a TV with an internal digital tuner) will allow you to continue to watch free over-the-air programming after February 17, 2009. However, if you have an analog television, you will need a digital-to-analog converter box to continue to watch broadcast television on that set. This converter box will also enable you to see any additional multicast programming that your local stations are offering.
To help consumers with the DTV transition, the Government established the Digital-to-Analog Converter Box Coupon Program. The National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA), a part of the Department of Commerce, administers this program. Every U.S. household is eligible to receive up to two coupons, worth $40 each, toward the purchase of eligible digital-to-analog converter boxes. You will be able to request the coupons beginning in January of 2008. The coupons may only be used for eligible converter boxes sold at participating consumer electronics retailers, and the coupons must be used at the time of purchase. Manufacturers estimate that digital-to-analog converter boxes will sell from $50 to $70 each. This is a one-time cost. For more information on the Digital-to-Analog Converter Box Coupon Program, visit the NTIA’s website at http://www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/, or call 1-888-388-2009 (voice) or 1-877-530-2634 (TTY).
Cable and satellite TV subscribers with analog TVs hooked up to their cable or satellite service should not be affected by the February 17, 2009 cut-off date for full-power analog broadcasting. (True if you have a digital cable box or a satellite cable box.)”
Televisions Services in the San Jose, CA Area
There are three choices for Television service in our area (excluding AT&T's limited fiber optic service called U-verse) which are Comcast cable, Dish Network, and DirecTV. Right now Comcast simulcasts high definition (HD), standard definition (SD), encrypted (QAM), and analog (NTSC) over the cable. Analog televisions and VCR's are only able to receive the analog signals. HDTV's are able to receive HD, SD, and analog signals, and the "channel up" and "channel down" enables selecting the desired type after using the numeric keys to select a channel. Only cable set top boxes are able to receive and decode the encrypted (QAM) channels. Dish Network and Direct TV use DVB-S (Digital Video Broadcasting – Satellite) forward error coding and modulation standard for satellite television, and the transport stream delivered is mandated as MPEG-2.
There are three types of tuners, excluding those required for satellite. "NTSC" tuners are used to receive the standard analog over-the-air and analog cable channels. "ATSC" tuning allows a set to tune to those same frequencies, but when it "sees" an SD (standard definition) or HD (high definition) signal, it is able to receive, demodulate and decode it. The Comcast set top boxes also have "QAM" tuners built-in to receive and decode Comcast encrypted channels. Satellite set top boxes receive and decode DVB-S (Digital Video Broadcasting – Satellite).
If you decide to pay for the extra charge for high definition (HD) programming, you have to be concerned about aspect ratios. Make sure you set each device to the setting that matches the TV to which it's attached: 4:3 for standard TVs, 16:9 for wide-screen monitors (nearly all HD TVs). Aspect ratio is the fractional relation of the width of a video image compared to its height. The two most common aspect ratios in home video are 4:3 (also known as 4x3, 1.33:1, or standard) and 16:9 (16x9, 1.78:1, or wide-screen). All the older TVs and computer monitors you grew up with had the 4:3 shape--only 33 percent wider than it was high. On the other hand, 16:9 is the native aspect ratio of most HDTV programming; it is 78 percent wider than it is tall, or fully one-third wider than 4:3. For more information see http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5140690-1.html
Considerations for Choosing a Television Service
Comcast plans to phase out all its analog channels and has already deleted several channels including the TV Guide (channel 11) and Hallmark (channel 66). Click here for details
Comcast Digital Starter includes Limited Basic and Expanded Basic, and the additional charge for Digital adds only $1. Click here for details.
Comcast now has about 145 channels on their Digital Starter cable package. Click here to view the channels.
Comcast has channels that can be viewed in 2009 on a digital TV or analog TV with a D/A converter without a cable box. Click here to view the channels.
Comcast has a onetime DVR install fee of $19.99.
Comcast will be installing TiVo functional software on its DVR’s, and is now testing it in New England. See http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3ic5807b521d85c7b80f455d3dd8c1edc2
DirecTV and Dish Network worked with TiVo and have incorporated TiVo functionality on their DVR’s.
If you buy a TiVo DVR, the TiVo ongoing monthly DVR service fee is $12.95 per month on an annual basis (was $16.95). Lifetime contracts for $299 are no longer offered on new purchases.
Since Comcast (in the future), DirecTV, and Dish Network all provide TiVo functionality in their rental DVR’s at a low lease cost that is about equal (Comcast) or less than TiVo’s ongoing monthly subscription charge, it is hard to justify buying a DVR from TiVo.
Both Dish Network’s dual DVR and dual receiver each support two TV’s in different rooms which reduces the number of set top boxes and overall monthly rental cost.
HD (high definition) has an added cost of about $20 (Dish satellite) to about $7 (cable).
From what I have found on the Internet, it appears that all manufactures have stopped making analog VCR’s and DVD/VCR’s with analog tuners.
With a set top box, it is difficult to use a VCR or DVD writer because the channel recorded is determined by the cable or satellite box.
If you have a dual channel Hard Drive DVR, you can record on one channel and watch TV on the other channel.
If you have a dual channel Hard Drive DVR, you can record on both channels and watch a TV program recorded on the hard disk.
Dish Network’s 500 GB ViP722 HD DVR holds up to 350 hours of SD recordings or 55 hours of HD which is much larger in capacity than a Comcast’s 120 GB DVR or DirecTV's 250 GB DVR. See http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/product_brochures/722_brochure.pdf
Standard satellite equipment and installation are free (Dish has a $50 deposit that is rebated on the first bill) if it involves no interior walls and does not require an excessive amount of RG6 cable (They state up to 100 feet of free RG6, but our installer used more than that without charging).
Dish Networks 2 TV dual units handle two TV’s in different rooms and come with two remotes (1-IR and 1-RF for distant room). DirecTV is planning to have similar hardware sometime in the future...
Satellite companies don’t install any required phone extension lines with jacks, but generally provide 25 foot phone extension cords to reach an existing jack.
A line of sight path to the satellite is required at an elevation of about 43 degrees and an azimuth of about 155 degrees in the San Jose area.
Cost Comparisons for Television Services
Considering the above items, I evaluated the merits and cost of Comcast, DirecTV, Dish Network, and AT&T Dish for a 200 channels (145 Comcast) four room system with a dual channel DVR The prices exclude reductions for a limited periods (such as DirecTV’s $10 reduction for the first year or Comcast's 3 month reduction) and local fees & taxes. The AT&T Dish equipment is the same as Dish Network’s equipment, but booking through AT&T gives an ongoing $4 per month reduction for AT&T customers. Smaller setups such as a two room system can be derived from the figures shown.
Comcast Digital Starter: 56.99 (less than 200 channels including local channels) + 13.95 (dual DVR) +20.97 (rooms 2-4 set top boxes @ 6.99 each) = 91.91.
DirecTV Plus: 59.99 (200 Channels with 1 TV dual DVR and local channels) + 14.97 (rooms 2-4 receivers @ 4.99 each) = 74.96
Dish Network: 49.99 (200 Channels including local channels) + 5.99 (dual 2 TV HD DVR) + 5.00 (2 TV SD dual channel receiver = 60.98
AT&T Dish: 49.99 (200 Channels including local channels) + 5.99 (dual 2 TV HD DVR) + 5.00 (2 TV SD dual channel receiver – 4.00 (ongoing AT&T customer discount) = 56.98
My Choice for a Television Service
I chose the AT&T Dish four room system that includes 200 channels, a VIP722 HD dual DVR (500 GB HD) in the family room (feeds living room TV using an RF remote), SD dual receiver in the PC bedroom (feeds master bedroom using an RF remote). My total cost per month is about the same as my former Comcast Extended Basic. There was a $49.99 installation fee which will be refunded on the first bill, so my out of pocket expenses are effectively zero for the AT&T Dish system.
I priced the AT&T Dish system online all the way to checkout, and printed the costs without ordering... Then, I called AT & T, 904 Blossom Hill Road at 408-574-3860 and talked with Jeff Schmidt about possible installation problems. Jeff said he would give me the same price, so I ordered it though him.
On Wednesday November 14, 2007, the installation of our Dish Network satellite TV system started a little before 8 am by one installer and was completed a little after 12 pm. The installer did an outstanding job of mounting the dish exactly where I wanted it on the peak of the roof in the side yard almost out of sight from the front of the house, and it was a very neat installation. The signal strength was higher than normal, and the pictures on the televisions were excellent.
The existing Comcast cables were inadequate for "Satellite In" signals, and a RG6 cable had to be run through the attic from the dish to the family room for the dual DVR and a second cable had to be run through the attic from the dish to the PC bedroom for the dual receiver. Since the TV location in the family room was on an interior wall, the cable had to be run through the attic and down through an interior wall.
To prevent it from being a custom installation I assisted the installer, and I cut out sheetrock from the interior family room wall in two places so that the cable could be fished down the interior wall. Also, since Dish Network does not install telephone jacks, I fished a standard 4 wire telephone line through the same sheetrock holes and routed in through the attic after the install person left. The next day, I patched the holes in the sheetrock, and after a few more coats of joint compound, I primed a painted the wall. The dual receiver installation in the PC bedroom was easy since it was on the wall adjacent to the garage, so the installer was able to get to it by routing that RG6 cable out of the attic and through the garage. The installer provided an HDMI cable to connect the DVR to my HDTV which is not normally part of the free install.
Because we have six VCR’s with two in the family room, two in the PC bedroom, and two in the master bedroom, I cabled them all into the system. Also, with the setup, I have fed the PC bedroom receiver TV2 Agile modulated output on channel 73 back to the family room so that we can watch a TV show in the family room while two recordings are active. Since it is so easy to setup DVR recordings from the Guide or a search, we will probably not record any new VHS tapes unless we want to save them permanently, and we will. phase out most of the VCR’s.
The Dish VIP722 HD DVR is about equal to the TiVo Series 3 which sells for $599.99 plus tax plus $12.95 per month subscription fee on a 1 year monthly plan. However, the Dish DVR is leased for $6 per month with no upfront cost and seems to have all the TiVo features except a high speed Internet connection even though it has an Ethernet port for future use. It does have satellite pay for view and satellite on demand access to the newest movies for a reasonable price, and it uses a dialup internet connection for paying. Also it has two USB ports for multimedia and an external hard disk. We record shows in Standard Definition (SD) because 55 hours of High Definition (HD) recording would not be sufficient for our usage.
When I had Comcast cable, I could notice the picture quality difference between
analog channels and digital channels on our 32 inch 720p LCD HDTV. However, with
Dish Network, I not been able to see any difference between SD and HD broadcast
quality even standing in front of the TV and looking at letterings. There is one
HD difference which is that you get the correct aspect ratio in HD to fill the
full screen, and you don't have to use the "stretch" feature (causes
distortion) for a full screen picture.
Maybe with a larger 1080p HDTV, one might notice the difference between SD and
HD broadcasts. We presently have 6 months of free HD, but I plan to cancel near
the end of the free period to avoid an additional $20 per month charge.. Also,
since we record everything in SD and primarily watch recorded shows, HD would
not be of much value to us. Also, we have 3 months of free HBO and Cinemax which
we will also cancel near the end of the free period to avoid an additional $20
per month charge. HBO is great, but I could subscribe to Netflix for less
money.
My first AT&T bill with Dish Network was a $36.72
credit
for Dish Network. I found the bill confusing at first. When I ordered
Dish, I Visa charged $49.99 installation charge which I was refunded on my first
bill. Also, I received other credits for 3 months of free HBO & Cinemax and 6
months of free HD (high definition) programming.
After the rebates end, I will cancel both HBO & Cinemax as well as HD
Programming, and then my on going bill will probably be as follows:
1. 200 channels package including local channels: 49.99
2. HD DVR with 350 hour SD recording for 2 rooms with RF and IR remotes: 5.99
3. 2 room SD receiver with RF and IR remotes: 5.00
4. State and local taxes: 1.00 (estimate)
5. AT&T customer on going discount of 4.00
Total is $57.98 which is less than my former Comcast analog
extended basic subscription for $60.51.
The following are responses by Comcast during
the period that I was evaluating staying with Comcast and getting their DVR. I
put parenthesis around comments that I added.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Comcast Ecare
Bay Area" <vidsupport_bay@cable.comcast.com>
To: "Russell Munch" <munch@sjpc.org>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: Web Form Submission: General Inquiry/General Setup Questions
(KMM27764213V39316L0KM)
Dear Russell Munch,
Thank you for all your questions regarding Comcast Cable services :)
I understand that you are interested in Comcast Digital Video Recorder
(DVR) and its functionality. Comcast is a recognized leader in offering
new products and services. One of the many new products currently
available is Digital Video Recorder (DVR).
Also, to answer some of your questions:
Who is the DVR manufacturer in our area? Motorola, Scientific Atlanta
Can the DVR record two channels while watching a different show
previously recorded on the DVR hard disk? Yes
Will many or all analog channels be phased out in 2009?They will be
phased out
Will the basic analog channels remain in 2009? We are currently starting
to phase out all analog channels, as we can provide more programming
with digital
Can any remaining analog channels be watched in other rooms without a
set top box? Yes
Can non scrambled digital channels be watched without a set top box with
an HDTV? Yes
Is a phone line connection required to get the program guide? No
What is the least expensive digital package that I can get that includes
a dual channel DVR and a program guide? Starter Cable (Digital Starter)
You can also find more information by going to Comcast.com and selecting
shop.
Thank you for choosing Comcast.
Sincerely,
Robin
Comcast Customer Care Specialist
-----------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Comcast Ecare Bay Area" <vidsupport_bay@cable.comcast.com>
To: <munch@sjpc.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: Web Form Submission: General Inquiry/General Setup Questions
(KMM27838112V25523L0KM)
Dear Russell,
We apologize for the inconvenience you've experienced.
I understanad that you are requesting information about the Digital Starter
channel lineup and cost in your area. The Starter cable programming is
$ 53.50 per month plus taxes and fees. Certain services are available
separately or as a part of other levels of service, and not all services
are available in all areas. Basic Service subscription is required to
receive other services or levels of service of video programming. A
converter and remote control is required to receive certain services.
Installation, equipment, additional outlet, change of service, premium
and other charges may apply. Prices do not include applicable taxes or
franchise fees. Pricing, programming, channel location and packaging may
change.
The channel lineup is listed below (for Digital Starter):
1 On Demand*
2 KTVU-2 (FOX)
3 KNTV-11 (NBC)
4 KRON-4 (My Network)
5 KPIX-5 (CBS)
6 KICU-36 (IND)
7 KGO-7 (ABC)
8 KTSF-26 (IND)
9 KQED-9 (PBS)
10 KTEH-54 (PBS)
11 TV Guide Channel
12 KBCW-44 (CW)
13 KBWB-20 (IND)
14 KDTV-14 (UNI)
15 Community Channel
16 KKPX-65 (I TV)
17 KCSM-60 (PBS)
18 KSTS-48 (TLMD)
19 KTNC-42 (Azteca)
20 KFSF-66 (TF)
21 KCNS-38 (IND)
22 C-SPAN
23 C-SPAN 2
24 KSBW-8 (NBC)
25 KTLN-68 (IND)
26 Campbell Government Channel (Campbell Only)
26 Civic Center TV
27 CCN 1
28 CCN 2
29 The Discovery Channel
30 California Channel (M-F 9AM-3:30PM)
30 Leased Access (All other hours)
31 Home Shopping Network
32 KMTP-32 (IND)
33 WGN
34 QVC
35 Food Network
36 FX
37 TNT
38 ESPN
39 ESPN2
40 Fox Sports Net Bay Area
41 TBS Superstation
42 USA Network
43 MTV
44 VH-1
45 Spike TV
46 Lifetime
47 A&E
49 AMC
50 The Learning Channel
51 Animal Planet
52 ABC Family
53 Nickelodeon
54 Cartoon Network
55 The Disney Channel
56 CNN
57 CNN Headline News
58 CNBC
59 Fox News
60 MSNBC
61 The Weather Channel
62 The History Channel
63 Comedy Central
64 E!
65 Court TV
66 Hallmark Channel
67 Home & Garden TV
68 Galavision
69 AZN
70 BET
71 Travel Channel
72 TV Land
73 Sci-Fi Channel
74 Mun2
75 Country Music Television
76 Leased Access - Shop NBC
77 Access Television Network
81 VERSUS
82 The Golf Channel
149 Movieplex*
186 KNTV - Weather
189 KQED - Encore
190 KQED - World
191 KQED - Life
192 KQED - Kids
194 KGO Plus
195 KGO AccuWeather Now
421-426 Sports Pay-Per-View
439 NBA TV (Season League Pass)
440 NBA.Com
441-449 NBA Pay-Per-View
461-470 NHL/MLB Pay-Per-View
800 Pay-Per-View Previews
801-802 Pay-Per-View Hits
814 Preview Movies On Demand
832 Pay-Per-View Preview
853 Playboy (Adult Pay-Per-View)
901 Showcase
902 Today?s Country
903 Classic Country
904 R & B Hits
905 Bluegrass
906 R&B and Hip-Hop
907 Classic R&B
908 Smooth R&B
909 Rap
910 Metal
911 Rock
912 Arena Rock
913 Classic Rock
914 Alternative
915 Electronica
916 Dance
917 Adult Alternative
918 Soft Rock
919 Hit List
920 Party Favorites
921 ?80s
922 Retro-Active
923 ?70s
924 Solid Gold Oldies
925 Singers & Standards
926 Big Band & Swing
927 Easy Listening
928 Smooth Jazz
929 Jazz
930 Blues
931 Reggae
932 Soundscapes
933 Classical Masterpieces
934 Opera
935 Light Classical
936 Show Tunes
937 Contemporary Christian
938 Gospel
939 Radio Disney
940 Sounds of the Seasons
941 Musica Urbana
942 Salsa Merengue
943 Rock en Espaqol
944 Pop Latino
945 90's
960-989 Digital FM Channels
Please feel free to contact us if you have any more questions. You may
respond directly to this email. Thank you for your interest in Comcast.
Thank you for choosing Comcast.
Sincerely,
Charlie
Comcast Customer Care Specialist
--------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Comcast Ecare Bay Area" <vidsupport_bay@cable.comcast.com>
To: "Russ Munch" <munch@sjpc.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: Web Form Submission: General Inquiry/General Setup Questions
(KMM27846599V58634L0KM)
Dear Russ,
Thank you for contacting us regarding your Comcast cable service.
You will be able to receive the below channels with no (Comcast) digital box
(When Comcast eliminates all the analog channels, you wiill need a digital to
analog converter box if have an analog TV.).
2 KTVU-2 (FOX)
3 KNTV-11 (NBC)
4 KRON-4 (My Network)
5 KPIX-5 (CBS)
6 KICU-36 (IND)
7 KGO-7 (ABC)
8 KTSF-26 (IND)
9 KQED-9 (PBS)
10 KTEH-54 (PBS)
11 TV Guide Channel
12 KBCW-44 (CW)
13 KBWB-20 (IND)
14 KDTV-14 (UNI)
15 Community Channel
16 KKPX-65 (I TV)
17 KCSM-60 (PBS)
18 KSTS-48 (TLMD)
19 KTNC-42 (Azteca)
20 KFSF-66 (TF)
21 KCNS-38 (IND)
22 C-SPAN
23 C-SPAN 2
24 KSBW-8 (NBC)
25 KTLN-68 (IND)
26 Campbell Government Channel (Campbell Only)
26 Civic Center TV
27 CCN 1
28 CCN 2
29 The Discovery Channel
30 California Channel (M-F 9AM-3:30PM)
30 Leased Access (All other hours)
31 Home Shopping Network
32 KMTP-32 (IND)
33 WGN
34 QVC
35 Food Network
36 FX
37 TNT
38 ESPN
39 ESPN2
40 Fox Sports Net Bay Area
41 TBS Superstation
42 USA Network
43 MTV
44 VH-1
45 Spike TV
46 Lifetime
47 A&E
49 AMC
50 The Learning Channel
51 Animal Planet
52 ABC Family
53 Nickelodeon
54 Cartoon Network
55 The Disney Channel
56 CNN
57 CNN Headline News
58 CNBC
59 Fox News
60 MSNBC
61 The Weather Channel
62 The History Channel
63 Comedy Central
64 E!
65 Court TV
66 Hallmark Channel
67 Home & Garden TV
68 Galavision
69 AZN
70 BET
71 Travel Channel
72 TV Land
73 Sci-Fi Channel
74 Mun2
75 Country Music Television
76 Leased Access - Shop NBC
77 Access Television Network
81 VERSUS
82 The Golf Channel
Thank you for choosing Comcast.
Sincerely,
Dan
Comcast Customer Care Specialist
---------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Comcast Ecare Bay Area" <vidsupport_bay@cable.comcast.com>
To: "Russell Munch" <munch@sjpc.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: Web Form Submission: General Inquiry/Other (KMM28059582V53191L0KM)
Dear Russell,
Thank you for contacting Comcast.
The cost of the Digital Starter includes the basic and expanded cable
channels.
$13.08 Limited Basic
$42.91 Expanded Basic
$ 1.00 Starter
$56.99 Total cost of Starter package
This price includes one digital set top box with the Starter package.
Additional boxes would be $6.99 per month per box.
If you would like to make changes to your account please chat in as some
communications need more specific and detailed information before any
account changes can be made.
At Comcast, we are focused on providing our customers with the most
secure customer service experience. To protect our customers from
Internet fraud, we do not request or provide any sensitive customer
information via email.
We will be able to help you via our online chat service. You can chat
with one of our Customer Support Specialists 24 hour a day, 7 days a
week at
http://www.comcastsupport.com/videochat
If you have any more questions feel free to reply to this e-mail, or you
can chat with one of our Online Customer Support Specialists 24 hours a
day, 7 days a week using the following link:
http://www.comcastsupport.com/chat
Thank you for choosing Comcast.
Sincerely,
Janet
Comcast Customer Care Specialist
OEM Cable Box and OEM DVR Operating Problems with Comcast Cable
The following emails outline some of the problems encountered when OEM equipments is used in conjunction with Comcast cable.
----- Original Message -----
From: JOHN ZIMMERMAN
To: Russ Munch
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: Converting to Digital Television
Hi Russ,
Here is some of my experiences relating digital tuners. I'm not a good technical
writer but will do my best. If you find more information, would appreciate
getting it.
-
I purchased a Samsung SIR-T451 over-the-air tuner box (about a year ago) for use
with over the air digital stations. Connected it to our UHF antenna and found
that most stations are now transmitting digital channels. If fact, Channel 9 has
a whole bunch of sub-channels: 9.1, 9.2, 9.3, 9.4, 9.5. Also channel 54 and
several other stations have many programs - even programs not available over
Comcast. Internet program schedule sites provide listing for all over-the-air
channels and sub-channels.
We had analog Comcast service as our primary viewing service. All of our TV sets
have analog tuners. Gracia liked the Hallmark channel and in November 2007
Comcast changed that channel to a digital-only channel, so we lost it. I heard
from a friend that if a digital tuner was connected to the incoming Comcast
cable, you would get a lot of digital channels even if you don't have digital
cable service. I tried it and yes, there were a lot of digital channels, but
couldn't find the Hallmark channel. The channel format was similar to the
over-the-air digital channels in their numbering (i.e. 90.1, 91.2, 92.1, 92.3,
92.4, 92.5, 92.10, 93.8, ..... 119.1, 119.2, 123.40) but didn't correlate to
Comcast listings. I also have a Panasonic PV-V4600 DVR that has a digital tuner.
It has an auto-channel-detection mode with two options: Antenna and Cable I
selected 'Cable' and it found the same (or similar) Comcast channels as found on
my digital tuner box (Samsung). Some (most) of the digital channels gave blank
(black) screens, but there were about 80-100 channels that had programs running.
I couldn't correlate the channel numbers with the regular Comcast channels that
go from 1 to 999 with no sub-channels.
For a dollar more ($55 vs $56), we could get introductory digital service with
lots of benefits including On-Demand, On-screen menus, and more channels than
the analog service. I checked the Comcast internet site and found that they had
a special introduction price for digital service for $33.00 per month for the
first 3 months. When I went to their store (So. 10th St), they said that the
$33.00 price lasts for 1 year. Our price was reduced from $55.00 to $33.00 for
this first year. They were very friendly and helpful. In a year, I guess it will
go back up to the $56.00 price.
According to the Comcast website, their price included one box rental.
Additional boxes could be rented for $6.00 each per month. Their Q&A also
implied that if you have other digital tuners, you can receive the digital
programming but without the On-demand and Menu features included with their
boxes. It sounded like we could receive the digital channels with numbers shown
on programming guides. After getting digital service, I expected channels on my
digital tuner devices to change, but saw no change in numbering and we still had
the sub-channels.
I called the Panasonic service and they said that we need a QAM tuner to receive
the Comcast channels and what we were now getting was just 'side bands' signals.
He said that the QAM is a proprietary Comcast cable spec but the FCC required
Comcast to share it with third party manufactures in July 2007. Panasonic's next
recorder to be released in March 2008 may have a QAM tuner.
I have checked the internet and also Fry's Electronics and they have devices
with QAM tuners now, but they seem to imply that numbering has the sub-channel
format and a maximum channel of 150 -- the same as my current digital tuners. I
haven't been able to find a salesperson that understands what's going on. I even
read an article in our local community paper by a guy that owns a business that
sets-up video home systems and he welcomes questions. I sent him my questions
and he didn't seem to give any additional information. My question was. "Getting
a new TV set with a digital tuner and using Comcast still requires that the TV
set be tuned to channel 3 only (or use video in) and it still requires us to use
a digital box rented from Comcast. Why and what are the options?" Its just
'stupid' to pay for a tuner. Why not buy a monitor without a tuner? We have
discovered that most DVR's and the few VCR's now available don't have tuners in
them so that seems to be the direction things are going.
I told Gracia that I will get her a digital box from Comcast, but she doesn't
want another piece of electronic equipment with another remote control. A new TV
set doesn't seem to be adequate for Cable service.
Comcast told me that it wasn't their decision to go digital, but the FCC's
requirement. I went to an FCC Internet site and their Q&A said that the digital
edict was only for over-the-air communications and the Cable Companies can do
what ever they want. I think that Comcast will continue to provide analog
signals even after February 2009, but I don't know. We still get those analog
signals with our digital service.
Please let me know if you have any questions, comments, or new information.
Thanks.
John Zimmerman, johnzim@msn.com
- Original Message -----
From: Russ Munch
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 9:14 AM
To: John Zimmerman
Subject: Converting to Digital Television
Hi John,
At the last PC Club meeting, you gave some information on your conversion to
digital television with Comcast using non Comcast hardware and the problems that
you encountered..
I would like to add your experiences to my page on Converting to Digital TV at
http://www.sjpc.org/presentations/digitaltv.htm
I would appreciate it if you could describe in detail the hardware devices you
used, hardware costs, how you connected them, the functions that worked
successfully, and functions that did not work without Comcast's set top boxes.
From what you said at the last PC Club meeting, it appears that you were having
trouble identifying channels because of a lack of a Comcast program guide..
Also, with the non Comcast DVR, were you able to record shows either manually by
channel number and time or off a program guide? If you were to start over, would
you consider leasing equipment?
My AT&T Dish 200 channel four room setup with a 350 hour SD or 55 hour HD
capacity DVR works great and has all the TiVo functions such a recording two
shows and watching a recording at the same time as well as pausing live TV. I
had no installation or equipment costs, and my cost is about $58 a month
including taxes and fees which is less than the $60.51 that I was paying for
Comcast analog extended basic which had no DVR.
Thanks,
Russ.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Russ Munch
To: Board Members
Cc: support@sjpc.org
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: Converting to Digital Television - feedback
Hi John,
Thanks for putting forth the effort to document your experiences with using a
non Comcast digital to analog converter and a non Comcast digital video recorder
with Comcast cable TV. I added your email to http://www.sjpc.org/presentations/digitaltv.htm
at the end for now. I will try to better organize the page content at http://www.sjpc.org/presentations/digitaltv.htm
when I get a chance.
Initially, I started in the same direction that you took and looked into hard
disk DVR's that did not have a subscription fee. Fortunately, I took Alan
Baker's advice which was to make sure that the DVR that I chose had a good
program guide such as TiVo. I looked into TiVo, and I liked everything about it
except for the subscription fee which was $16.95 per month on an monthly basis
when I was evaluating TiVo. When I found out that Dish Network offered a
subscription DVR with TiVo functionality and a 350 hour SD (55 hours HD)
recording capacity for only $5.99 a month with no purchase or installation
charge, I decided to have AT&T Dish four room system installed.
It appears from what you wrote, trying to use non cable or non satellite company
hardware (except TiVo) is a "barrel of snakes". My suggestion would be not to
invest any more time or money in non cable or non satellite company hardware and
lease a DVR from a cable or a satellite company or buy a TiVo. I suggest that
you see how easy DVR programming is with TiVo, Direct TV, and Dish Network by
viewing their operation. At present, the Comcast DVRs have not been upgraded
with TiVo functionality in the San Jose area, but you still might want to see
the Comcast DVR in operation. You and Gracia are welcome to drop over to our
home and see how AT&T Dish programming works.
The following was extracted from
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=987843 which seems to point
out the difficulties of trying to avoid subscription fees.
Russ
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: Should I be able to receive local HD programs (or any others ?)
without purchasing a Comcast Box or subscribing to their Digital/HD program
packages ? I believe the TV set has the QAM Tuner that folks have mentioned.
On many but not all cable systems, the local network affiliates and perhaps a
few other "freebies" are carried on the cable in "clear QAM". If your set is QAM-capable,
you can find and watch these channels by connecting the raw cable signal from
the wall (or a split of it) directly to you sets antenna input, and then doing a
scan. Consult your sets manual to find out which antenna jack, if there is more
than one, and what settings in the scan menu might be needed.
Don't be surprised if the set finds hundreds of blank channels; those are the
ones that are coded for conditional access (encrypted), but you should find your
locals that way. Your scan will probably also find most or all of the SD analog
"legacy" channels in the range of 2-80 or so. QAM channels carrying digital SD
and HD programming typically run from about 80 to 125 or so.
Also don't be surprised if the set-indicated "channel" is an unintuitive number
like "103.58". That is usually the raw QAM channel (e.g. 103) and the subchannel
(e.g. 58) which unfortunately bear no resemblance to either the over-the-air or
CATV STB channel number. You may then have to manually delete the unwanted blank
channels, or move the usable ones into a "favorites" area for more convenient
tuning.
A few enlightened cable systems pass through or add metadata that will identify
the source or "real" channel number, but so far that's not common. They'd rather
rent you a digital/HD STB which will map the QAM channels to a number that
corresponds to their published lineup.
I have a TV with ATSC,NTSC and QAM. I want to use the TV tuner instead of the
STB. Is there a CableCARD reader that is not a Tuner. Something that will decode
the signal from the cable company and then my TV's tuner will pick it up. That
way I just need one remote. I also installed a A/B switch to go back and forth
from Cable and OTA. What you're asking for does not exist, and is not
technically feasible due to the way CableCARD works. It's not a disk/memory
card; it's a streaming decryption engine, which the captured bitstream has to be
run through to yield an unencrypted stream which can then be fed into the
appropriate decoding/display logic. The closest thing would be either (a) a TiVo
Series3 (now discontinued) or TiVo HD DVR (which involves a monthly fee), or (b)
Sony's DHG-HDD250/500 DVR (also discontinued). Far as I know, there aren't any
other widely-available CableCARD set-top box devices, other than the cable
company boxes - given that was the intent of CableCARD (to make anyone's box
able to receive digital cable), it's a little bit funny.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Russ Munch
To: John Zimmerman
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 10:15 AM
Subject: Mapping QAM Channels
Hi John,
Since you asked for feedback, I will mention a few more things to consider.
You wrote "I told Gracia that I will get her a digital box from Comcast, but she
doesn't want another piece of electronic equipment with another remote control.
A new TV set doesn't seem to be adequate for Cable service." Why not just
replace your OEM receiver set top box with the Comcast receiver set top box you
are entitled to at no cost, and store the OEM receiver set top box for now? This
would solve the mapping problems and not add to the clutter.
You might want to spend this year experimenting with a Comcast receiver set top
box which is included in your Digital Starter package and/or a Comcast DVR which
would cost $13.99/month plus any fees and taxes. Since you are paying only
$30/month (plus fees and taxes) at present, it would only cost you $43.99 (plus
fees and taxes) to try out both of these during your $30/month period. With
either a Comcast receiver or a Comcast DVR, your mapping problems are
eliminated.
If Comcast continues to increase rates once or twice a year (as done in 2007),
your cost at the end of the $30/month period may be higher than $56 per month
plus fees and taxes of about $4.50 which totals about $60.50 at present rates.
My four room 200 channel AT&T Dish system with a DVR is only about $58/month
including fees and taxes. To get a setup equivalent to mine (except the DVR
capacity would be much less) from Comcast would be about $92/month plus fees and
taxes.
You wrote " After getting digital service, I expected channels on my digital
tuner devices to change, but saw no change in numbering and we still had the
sub-channels". From what I have read, I believe that the Comcast transmissions
to your home are the same for all levels of service, and the Comcast set top box
has the logic to enable and disable channels to match your subscription. This is
why you noticed no difference using OEM (non Comcast) equipment. With Dish
Network, they also do it in the set top box by sending commands.
I changed the page at http://www.sjpc.org/presentations/digitaltv.htm to include
links to all the topics at the top of the page. This make it a lot easier to
find topics of interest.
The following was extracted from http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=25525
which explains some of the aspects of QAM mapping.
Russ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is there some information source available that maps the 2 sets of channel
numbers?
Qam = quadrature amplitude modulation. it is the carrier that brings the
video/audio/digital info to your home via coax systems.
Each carrier is 6mhz. Wide and depending on the type of Qam it is (16,64 or 256)
it is capable of holding up to20 channels.
I'm shocked that all these channels are unencrypted. The HD and movie channels
are encrypted, but it seems all the extended programming channels (about 70
channels) are not!
AS far as the odd 87.1 channels being mapped to the cable ones, in my area they
routinely change freq so what may be 87.2 today, may be 107.1 tomorrow. I got
tired of scanning every so often. Using a company box, you never see this as the
box gets remapped.
In my 3-year experience with a TV with a QAM tuner, here is what I have
realized:
The QAM is responsible for converting the digital signal for your tv, simply
having the HD tuner is not enough. You should get all of the local channels in
HD regardless. The bonus is the music stations, other movie stations, and the
"on-demand" content. I used to get ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, and few others, but they
eventually went away. Getting the on-demand content only works when someone
(probably on your box network) orders the show. I tested this out recently, and
it worked. I got a (cable company) digital box for another tv in my house,
ordered a movie, and then checked my TV with the QAM. The show came on. I check
every once in awhile for new channels to emerge, but nothing much recently. As
for the free HD local channels, they should come through to the channel based
upon your local broadcast. For example, if NBC is channel 4 (over the air), then
your NBC HD station should be 4-1.
There used to be a site that listed the lineup of the QAM channels for different
cities, but I think the site went down. Someone should start one up again. I
might.... I'll keep you posted....
This might be the site you're thinking of.
http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/hdhomerun/channels
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Russ Munch
To: John Zimmerman
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 8:55 AM
Subject: Comcast cable card
Hi John,
At
http://www.comcast.com/Customers/FAQ/FaqCategory.ashx?CatId=301, it states
the following.
"Comcast is committed to supporting digital-cable-ready television sets and
other devices, such as the TiVo Series 3 HD set-top box and the Microsoft
Digital Cable Tuners that consumer electronics manufacturers are developing. By
offering Cable CARD services, we're able to provide choices: customers who
prefer not having a digital set-top box can use a Cable CARD, while customers
who want to use the full-range of Digital Cable features, e.g. ON DEMAND,
Pay-Per-View, and the Comcast On-Screen Program Guide, will continue to use the
set-top box provided by Comcast to receive those features."
You might want to go to all the links at
http://www.comcast.com/Customers/FAQ/FaqCategory.ashx?CatId=301
It appears that the only way to get the Comcast program guide is to have a
Comcast set top box or a set top box that has a Comcast cable card installed
such as TiVo.
There is also a interesting article at
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=382443 which states
the following about scrambled channel mapping..
"I just went through a horror story with my HD TiVo (Comcast in Albuquerque NM),
which now appears to be resolved, and wanted to share the experience and
resolution with other TiVo users.
My TiVo HD has been working just fine. Yesterday while switching channels, the
TiVo crashed, and rebooted itself. When that was done, I thought everything was
back to normal, but it was not. All of my channels were remapped -- what should
have been my NBC HD channel was now analog MTV, etc. I was getting black screens
on analog network channels.
I ran through the Guided Setup but again nothing.
I called TiVo and they attributed the problem to the Cable Card, and suggested I
call Comcast and have them 'hit' the card again. Sounded reasonable, so I did
that. It didn't work. Comcast hit it several times -- no luck. So we scheduled a
Comcast technician to come out (fortunately at 9 am the next morning).
The technician tried sending a hit to the card -- nothing. We removed the card
and reinstalled it, did Guided Setup, again nothing. He installed a brand new
card, we did Guided Setup, again the same result.
I should mention that across all of these attempts, while the channel mapping
remained scrambled, it was CONSISTENTLY scrambled -- what should have been NBC
HD remained as MTV, etc.
At this point the technician gave up and said he'd huddle with his lead
engineer, who knows much more about Cable Card issues.
I decided to try TiVo tech support once again. The nice lady there noticed that
my service was set to "Basic Cable" instead of "Digital Extended" so we reset
that, and ... did the Guided Setup again (lord that takes a long time!). I was
convinced this would fix it, but nope. Exactly the same situation, scrambled in
exactly the same way.
So I called TiVo yet again. This time the tech support man suggested taking the
Cable Card out and checking to see if I could get regular analog channels where
they were known to be. I had no idea I could do this. So I removed the Cable
Card, tuned to a known analog channel (one that I had NOT been able to receive
while this problem was going on), waited for it to acquire the signal, and ...
voila! It did receive the channel. In fact, all my analog channels were back to
normal. TiVo tech support then said to call Comcast, since it was clearly a
Cable Card issue.
So, I reinserted the Cable Card. It was recognized but didn't function properly.
I called Comcast to have them come out again, and while I was online I asked the
tech support person to just 'hit' my card one more time.
And guess what ... everything is now back to normal.
I think I hate Cable Card technology.".
Russ.
Image Retention on
a LCD Screen